PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies? 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 

Forum for discussion on emergency household excreta disposal options, mozabican slab production, pit lining materials, high water tables, flooding, flat-pack septic tanks, bucket latrines, packet latrines, peepoo bags, etc.

PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Merlin » 08 Jul 2009 19:58

As I'm sure many of you are aware - it takes time to mobilize resources to excavate latrines in an emergency. I would be interested to hear what people think about using PeePoo bags to fill the short term interim sanitation gaps until facilities can be constructed. For those of you who haven' come across the peepoo bag - it's a personal single use biodegradable bag, that sanitise the human excreta shortly after the defecation, preventing the faeces from contaminating the immediate as well as the larger environment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp5_ySFsH9E.

You can also get more information on the PooPeople's site http://www.peepoople.com.

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
08 Jul 2009 19:58

Attachments
peepoo2.jpg
User avatar
Merlin
 
Posts: 101
Reputation:

Joined: May 2009
Years of WASH Experience: 15
WASH Country Experience: Cyberspace
WASH Work Experience: WaterSanitationHygiene

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby HappyPlumber » 08 Jul 2009 20:22

Having personal experience of shitting in a plastic bag (I used to do a fair bit of alpine climbing where we would camp out above the snowline) I can say that it is surprisingly simple and easy to do. I guess the popularity of 'flying latrines' (shitting in a plastic bag, tying a not and thowing it out your window) in many urban slums is an indication that the method is a culturally feasible option in some parts of the world. Whether it is suitable in an emergency is debatable and would strongly depends upon cultural acceptance. I would say it would be vey interesting to see someone give it a trial in an emergency setting. It may provide welcome relief for the first few weeks until sanitation facilities become available. It was also interesting to read a recent summary of "comments from the field" in relation to PeePoo bags mentioning that the product was good for 'emergency situations' although I'm not aware of any studies where it has been deployed in emergency settings.

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
Attachments
PeePoo Bag Comments from the Field.doc
(39.5 KiB) Downloaded 847 times
User avatar
HappyPlumber
 
Posts: 82
Reputation:

National Flag: Great Britain
Joined: July 2009
Years of WASH Experience: 10
WASH Country Experience: Albania, Afghanistan, Burundi, Chad, DRC, Ethiopia, Georgia, Guatemala, Haiti, Indonesia, Myanmar, N. Caucasus, Pakistan, Sudan, Thailand, Tibet
WASH Work Experience: Water for People, MSF-B, IRC, UNICEF, MDM, ACF.

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Jimbo » 20 Jul 2009 13:07

Does this have to be a peepoo bag - what about a bulk standard biodegradable plastic bag? To be honest Peepoo is starting to look like the next sanitation fad started by well intentioned but ill informed do gooders. To be honest I would see emergencies as the only setting where peepoo would be appropriate. What slum dwellers in Kibera and other slums need is extension of sewers and proper sanitary facilities. Peepoo initiatives are making policy makers think that it is acceptable for disadvantaged people to shit in a bag. Proper sanitation is afterall a basic human right.

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
User avatar
Jimbo
 
Posts: 13
Reputation:

Joined: July 2009

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Gazman » 09 Jan 2010 11:50

I don't know if the peepoo people are reading this but how are you supposed to shit in that tiny bag? We've used a 10$ Potette Travel Potty by Tommee Tippee for our kids for years. Hell, my wife has even used it on a number of occasions. Surely this is a much better solution?

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
Attachments
potette_potty_features_large.jpg
User avatar
Gazman
 
Posts: 24
Reputation:

National Flag: United States of America
Joined: July 2009
Location: Texas

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby PovertyEradication » 11 Jan 2010 19:12

The bioplastic from which the Peepoo is made is relatively expensive. Therefore, the outer liner of the Peepoo is slim to keep costs down and allow it to be a low-cost sanitation option. However, the inner green liner opens much wider and therefore the Peepoo can be spread over any container that a person can find for ease of use. Or in emergency situations (or even personal preference when squatting), the inner liner covers the hand to protect the hand against the “ick” factor of feces during direct usage.

In reference to the example you give, the Tommee Tippee potty liner bags are quite expensive (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommee-Tippee-P ... d_sim_by_1) about 6 pounds which is nearly $10 US for 10 bags. It is highly doubtful that in nations such as India where people currently pay 2 Rupees ($0.044 USD) to use the toilet that they can suddenly afford 46 Rupees!

Second the liner in this potty does not have any greater public health benefit (i.e. breakdown of pathogens). It is also difficult to find any information on the specifications of this liner (is it biodegradable? If so, over how much time, is it safe in the environment, etc.?).

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
User avatar
PovertyEradication
 
Posts: 5
Reputation:

National Flag: India
Joined: January 2010
Years of WASH Experience: 5
WASH Country Experience: India, Bangladesh, Haiti, Kenya, South Sudan, Darfur, Sudan, Jordan
WASH Work Experience: CARE, Oxfam, ACF, Relief International

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Gazman » 30 Jan 2010 23:31

PovertyEradication wrote:In reference to the example you give, the Tommee Tippee potty liner bags are quite expensive (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommee-Tippee-P ... d_sim_by_1) about 6 pounds which is nearly $10 US for 10 bags. It is highly doubtful that in nations such as India where people currently pay 2 Rupees ($0.044 USD) to use the toilet that they can suddenly afford 46 Rupees!

Sorry, only an idiot would buy the proper Tommee Tippee bags :o ! For the kids we just use an old plastic grocery bag with some toilet paper in the bottom to absorb the urine and dump it in the trash when we get home. Works a treat.

PovertyEradication wrote:The bioplastic from which the Peepoo is made is relatively expensive. Therefore, the outer liner of the Peepoo is slim to keep costs

Why are your bags so expensive (I heard rumors of more than 1.50 USD$ a PeePoo bag)? Why not use existing biodegradable grovery bags that are on the market and something like the Tommee Tippee seat? I didn't search for more than 30 seconds and found these which work out to be 0.05 USD$ a bag (and that's not even buying in bulk).

http://www.foodbizsupply.com/small-trel ... 7cWFB_d_05
bag.jpg


4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
User avatar
Gazman
 
Posts: 24
Reputation:

National Flag: United States of America
Joined: July 2009
Location: Texas

ADVERTISEMENT



Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby PovertyEradication » 31 Jan 2010 09:56

Gazman wrote: For the kids we just use an old plastic grocery bag with some toilet paper in the bottom to absorb the urine and dump it in the trash when we get home. Works a treat.


For your family (who I am assuming lives in an area with adequate sanitation so using old grocery plastic bags and throwing them in the trash is not a common event) what you are doing is fine. However, when you are speaking of an entire community that would need to practice this, even grocery bags with toilet paper would be too expensive not to mention extremely hazardous to health. For example, in Kenya where flying toilets are used, people pay US$0.02 to US$0.03 per plastic bag. Then an entire family uses it (therefore no way to ensure hygiene or health). There is no treatment to kill the pathogens in feces so they end up polluting the environment and causing widespread morbidity and mortality. Also, using toilet paper to absorb urine would not be cost effective because in many areas, it doesn’t exist, and where it does, it is very expensive. For example, in India, a roll of toilet paper, if you can even find it, usually costs 40-60 Rupees. Also, in my experience, any type of tissue paper or napkins are hard to find in developing countries (to blow your nose, wipe up a spill, anything! :) )

Gazman wrote: Why are your bags so expensive (I heard rumors of more than 1.50 USD$ a PeePoo bag)?


I do not know where you heard the rumor :o (please do tell me :x ) but the current projected price of the Peepoo is less than US$0.06 per bag. In addition to the bioplastic, you have to factor in the cost of the 3 grams of urea which is in each Peepoo that breaks down the pathogens in feces in 2-4 weeks.

Gazman wrote:Why not use existing biodegradable grovery bags that are on the market and something like the Tommee Tippee seat? I didn't search for more than 30 seconds and found these which work out to be 0.05 USD$ a bag (and that's not even buying in bulk).


The reason plain biodegradable grocery bags (as in the link you provided) cannot be used is two-fold:
1. It will not prevent smell. There are important additives in the Peepoo bioplastic which allows the Peepoo to remain odorless up to 24 hours after defecation. This window of time before the Peepoo smells allows for a system of collection or burial to be adapted by the population using the Peepoos. Odor is a major factor in sanitation, and is linked directly to user dignity, comfort, etc. No one wants to be exposed to the stench of their own feces for a prolonged period of time, let alone piles of feces from their community. The poor should not be subject to it simply because they are poor and their government has not provided adequate public services to them.

2. The bioplastic bag in your example takes 3-5 years to decompose!!!! In an urban slum with populations in the hundreds of thousands, assuming people poop once a day, these bags would begin to pile up years before the decomposition process would even begin. Conversely the Peepoo will begin to decompose in 3-6 months (which a safe enough time period to ensure ALL the pathogens in feces are inactivated so there is no chance of infecting the environment, polluting water sources, causing illness, etc.). Used Peepoos will completely biodegrade in approximately 1 year. These numbers vary slightly with temperature, but by NO MEANS will it take significantly more than 15 months for the entire Peepoo to decompose to humus. This rapid decomposition time allows the Peepoo to be used as a valuable fertilizer, where as your example bioplastic bag could not be utilized in agricultural production, and therefore, offers no additional environmental sustainability (i.e. the Peepoo offers nutrient recycling and reuse to limit chemical fertilizers and offer costs saving to poor farmers).

Gazman wrote:Why not use existing biodegradable grovery bags that are on the market and something like the Tommee Tippee seat?


Since many people are “squatters” and not “sitters” like in the Western World, a “seat” like the Tommee Tippee seat is not provided with the Peepoo. Research has shown that a “seat” is also not necessary. In most countries where adequate sanitation systems do not exists (i.e. Kenya, India, Bangladesh) there is an ample amount of local containers available to the people. In fact, a visit to nearly any slum would reveal piles of solid waste with myriad types of containers available. Using locally available “trash” allows for additional recycling and limits costs for the user. I have seen people use the Peepoo in containers as variable as a 2-Liter PET Coke bottle cut in half, to a tin Quaker Oats can, to even just covering their hand with the interior green liner and squatting directly over it.

Therefore, I hope now you can see that the Peepoo is perhaps the lowest-cost sanitation option (second to open defecation) and the only completely sustainable sanitation system (i.e. from source containment, to treatment, to safe disposal option) that currently exists. :mrgreen:

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
User avatar
PovertyEradication
 
Posts: 5
Reputation:

National Flag: India
Joined: January 2010
Years of WASH Experience: 5
WASH Country Experience: India, Bangladesh, Haiti, Kenya, South Sudan, Darfur, Sudan, Jordan
WASH Work Experience: CARE, Oxfam, ACF, Relief International

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Lugard » 12 Feb 2010 16:04

I know many people have said a lot about pee poo. I was personally about to be involved in a study of this bag in a world known Kibera slums in Kenya which unfortunately did not participate in. I think this can be good for temporary IDP settlements and NOT in slum areas. If the cost of one bag is 0.06 USD, not many slum dwellers may afford it given the fact that, slums dwellers support big families averaging 6 per family. This translates to 50 Kenya shillings that is equivalent to a meal for the same family.

It is a hard choice of whether it is disposal of the waste that you wont generate if you didn't have the food or is it the food so that you can generate the waste.

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
User avatar
Lugard
 
Posts: 4
Reputation:

National Flag: Djibouti
Joined: July 2009

Re: PeePoo Bidegradable Toilet Bags in Emergencies?

Postby Lugones » 15 May 2010 04:06

According to a study carried out by CDC in February 2010, 9.8% of the camp based displaced population following the Haiti Earthquake were using plastic bags as their main method of excreta disposal. Some NGOs such as MSF and Oxfam were actively promoting the use of plastic bags as an emergency sanitation solution.

4 Ratings (5.8 Stars out of 6.0) 4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars).4 Ratings (5.8 Stars). 
Attachments
MSF Plastic Bag Latrine.jpg
User avatar
Lugones
 
Posts: 1
Reputation:

Joined: May 2010

Next

Return to 2.2 Emergency Excreta Disposal - Household Options



 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron